Aligning dish with two LNBs to work with Thor 0.8W and and Astra 4A 4.8E

There are 16 replies in this Thread which was already clicked 3,896 times. The last Post () by wabbit.

    Hello,


    I just set up a sattelite dish for the first time, and am having some trouble locking a good signal on Thor. This is the equipment:


    Dish:
    Triax TD 78 70x78 cm
    Link: http://www.triax.com/FindProdu…29-4836-9748-1e876f62173d


    LNB Holder:
    Triax 6 degree DUO-Block
    Link: http://www.triax.dk/FindProduc…28-42d1-a3e8-689ba844abb6


    LNB:
    2x: Triax TSI 006 Universal Single LNB
    Link: http://www.triax.dk/FindProduc…9a-4b26-b9c4-4aceb4be65f2


    63d36dd23d0354d.jpg


    Only the LNB to the left is connected to the STB.


    Reciever:
    Vu+ Solo2 with Black Hole 3.0.1.F OE 3


    I also bought a DiSEqC but havent installed it yet.


    Dishpointer.com shows where to point the dish:


    27777dd365d298ceb953.png


    The dish is elevated to 26 degrees. I am live on the 2nd floor, does that matter?


    The AGC is 82% constantly and the SNR is spiking between 0-40 all the time.


    The same behaviour happens if i disconnected the cable from the LNB or switch the cable to the other tuner. When playing with different FEC values and symbol rates I cant get the SNR up to 60%.


    3f37105ac258.jpg


    What could I be doing wrong? Is the LNB skewed correctly?


    Thanks in advance

    Edited once, last by wabbit ().

    You dont use a duo block to pick up one satellite. You need a quad lnb, get an inverto black ultra. A duo block is used to pick up two satellites, usuually in mid europe for 13east and 19east.


    You could try moving the dish ever so slightly to the left as you look from behind but best to get a quad lnb and then you can take dead aim at 0.8w. What is your location roughly?

    Thanks for the reply!


    I was trying to pick up one sattelite just to see whether everything works. Is it absolutely necessary to connect both LNBs and use the DiSEqC just for test purposes?


    I bought this as a whole package that is supposed to be able to capture Thor 0.8W and Astra 4A 4.8E, because the Duo-Block is 6 degrees. Im not sure if that is a valid argument, but the advertisement was exactly for these two sattelites.


    I also noticed that the SNR on my Vu+ Solo2 is fluctating even when there are no cables connected. Is this normal?

    Edited once, last by wabbit ().

    To get some constructive answers to your question a few more details are required the main one being which country do you live in as the TD78 for 4.8 degrees east unless your on the north east coat of england will only get you the european beam and the Nordic beams will be very tight margins indeed.


    Secondly you bought a 6 degree block for around a 4 degree seperation, i have just seen you have posted links for the Triax.dk website so assuming your already in one of the nordic regions

    If you do live in the Nordic region, it probably is doable with that bracket. but each sat will be 1 degree off, so the signal will be degraded.


    Your screen shot show you are trying Thor, but a DVB-S (not S2) transponder with freq 11836 - which does not exist on either lyngsat or kingofsat and I also looked at a scan I did a long time ago and I also do not show a transponder for that sat at 11836. So, you are probably picking up a different sat...


    Also, you cannot just "play" with symbol rate and FEC - you need to lookup a strong transponder for your area and set those values to what it says on lyngsat or kingofsat. Although, setting the FEC to auto is usually not a problem - it will figure out the correct setting.


    As for the skew setting, the values listed assume your LNB is centered on the dish. So since your bracket is offset, those values will also be a little off. You will have to play a bit with the skew and see what gives you the best setting. (Don't forget to test both V and H transponders...)

    Thanks for the replies and sorry for slow repsonse.


    As for my location I live in Odense, Denmark.


    I downloaded a sattelies.xml file from sattelites-xml.eu where I chose Thor 5/6/7/Intelsat 10-02 (0.8W) and Astra 4A/SES 5 (4.9E) and uploaded it to my reciever. Also I used a "spirit level" to level the dish correctly.


    I found a predefined transponder in Satfinder (Black Hole application) that was on 59% (Thor) and moved the dish until it came above 60%. Then I did a automatic scan and found a lot of services.


    I managed to get a signal from 62-78% on both sattelites (depending on the channel).


    On Astra i found 50 services while I found 150 on Thor.


    All the services from Thor are from the provider "Telenor" which is the Canal Digital package. On Astra the provider is Unknown, however it should be Viasat.


    On Thor I am missing some Ex-Yu channels like:


    Happy
    DM Sat
    TV B92
    OBN
    RTS 1
    RTS 2


    Which are on: 12092 H 28000 7/8


    http://www.lyngsat.com/Thor-5-6-and-Intelsat-10-02.html


    Tried changing the values in Satfinder to see how big an SNR I would get with these values but it isnt good.


    Would I recieve better signal on both sattelites with a quad lnb as mentioned by bmitie ?


    Thanks

    Edited once, last by wabbit ().

    You need to give a bit more information, the important bit is the make and mdel of your receiver, it might be a, cheap, b, have a poor tuner, c, the software may be poor. A lot of the channels on those sats are encrypted so you need a subscription. The usaul procedure for getting sats is buy receiver, load a list of channels already prepared, select sat and away you go. You are trying the hard way, ie scan sat and so on. You have a twin lnb setup that is specifically designed to received two sats. Does your receiver have a tuners, ie two lnb inputs?? You cant get 100% signal with that setup . Its a compromise so you aim for best signal that wont break up in case of rain or snow. Did you assemble the duo as shown in the photo? It has to be excact.


    Al jazeera is free to air on 0.8west use that to get a signal. I cant get 4.8e.


    A quad lnb is just a single lnb with 4 outputs it will always point at one satellite.

    A couple of things to remember:


    1. Since the beam is reflected by the dish to the LNBs, the relative positions of the LNBs are reversed. If you haven't taken this into account, your second LNB could be pointing at 4W and not 4E. But you are probably ok since you stated that in your photo, you are using the left LNB for 0.8W, so the right LNB would be for 4.8E.


    2. Since both those satellites are to the west of your location and you have an elliptical dish, your dish should be slightly rotated (skewed) clockwise when looking from behind the dish toward the satellites. You can use dishpointer to find the skew for each sat and split the difference. This will make the left LNB (0.8W) be a little higher to account for the fact that 0.8W sat is a little lower on the horizon than 4.8E. (again relfection) I would start with the LNBs mounted straight with respect to the bracket and dish, then skew each one a little to adjust for best signal.


    Also I made a mistake earlier - I was thinking 4W, probably because I had just scanned that sat ;) But for 4.8E to 0.8W, there is actually 5.6 degrees of separation, so each sat will be off only around 0.2 degrees if you split the difference and that should give you pretty good signal for both.

    your location is ideal for these 2 satellites you are directly in the main Ku band beam for the BSS and Nordic beams which means a TD78 is ample enough to receive all beams at full strength near enough, As you cannot rotate the dish for skew then this has to be applied via the LNB's.


    Also it appears that the TD duoblock is a fixed type which does not allow for any type of adjustment to either raise or lower the LNB's so a compromise on the signal would have to be made but due to your location and signal strength of the satellites in question the loss will be negligible

    Quote from bmitie

    You need to give a bit more information, the important bit is the make and mdel of your receiver, it might be a, cheap, b, have a poor tuner, c, the software may be poor. A lot of the channels on those sats are encrypted so you need a subscription. The usaul procedure for getting sats is buy receiver, load a list of channels already prepared, select sat and away you go. You are trying the hard way, ie scan sat and so on. You have a twin lnb setup that is specifically designed to received two sats. Does your receiver have a tuners, ie two lnb inputs?? You cant get 100% signal with that setup . Its a compromise so you aim for best signal that wont break up in case of rain or snow. Did you assemble the duo as shown in the photo? It has to be excact.


    Al jazeera is free to air on 0.8west use that to get a signal. I cant get 4.8e.


    A quad lnb is just a single lnb with 4 outputs it will always point at one satellite.


    As mentioned in my first post the reciever is a Vu+ Solo2 running Black Hole 3.0.1.F OE. The LNBs are connected to a DiSEqC. The reciever also has two tuners. I have subscriptions for Canal Digital and Viasat (nordic, OSCam).
    Right now I have a SNR of 99% on some Canal Digital channels (Thor), however 59% SNR on Astra. Your idea with the prepared list of channels sounds good. Will try to find one and upload it, to see what SNR I am getting on those channels. Doesn't matter if I am doing it the hard way, wouldn't learn anything otherwise :P


    Just bought a satellite signal strenght meter for positioning satellite dishes so I hope that will help a bit.



    Im a little confused. What I meant was the leftmost LNB, when looking from behind the dish toward the satellites, was pointing at Thor. Is that correct, or should it be reversed?
    I just reversed it and am getting 99% on Thor while staying on 59% on Astra:


    02fde9e5a1021f42b82e.jpg


    Im not sure how to skew the dish as it is locked to the wall mount, and the LNBs are locked to the bracket. Only thing I can do is to rotate the LNBs:


    018de08e775237d.jpg


    Picture as labeled is reversed - leftmost when looking from behind the dish towards the satellites is Thor 0.8W and the other for Astra 4.8E.


    Yes, with that mount it would be very difficult to skew, so you will be limited to skewing the LNBs.


    If Thor is stronger, you can try tilting the dish up just a bit and the Thor signal should drop a little and Astra should gain.


    While a signal meter will get you close, it probably will not help much when trying to fine tune - too much work to keep switching it back and forth. If you have an Android phone or tablet, you can download the vu+player app and it has a signal meter you can use while adjusting the dish. It will take a lot of time (and patience) to fine tune to get the maximum signal from both...

    Finally I figured out what skew means: rotating the LNB ^_^


    Changed it back to the old setup - Left LNB: Thor and Right LNB: Astra.


    Did an autoscan and recieved around 200 "services", 50 of them being from Astra, as before. No radios.


    SNR on all channels is around 95%.


    I think it's weird that I do not recieve more channels on theese sattelites.


    Installed AutoBouquetes to see if it would find more channels. It fails with the error message: Timeout for tuner lock


    Here is the error log:



    Thanks

    Edited 3 times, last by wabbit ().

    Oops I missed that bit about solo2. The good news is I have a solo2 as well but with a very old BH2.0.7 image!! You are almost sorted. I use a fixed dish on lnb1 and a motorised dish on lnb2. You should not need a diseq switch. So if you get 99% on thor then you have that lnb sorted but I always use a channel so try al jazeera. The next bit while still on thor try both polarities, ie H and V. There is a gospel channel thats FTA as well.


    The solo2 has 2 tuners so use LNB1 for thor and lnb2 for 4.8e. I use green button to change satellites.


    If you get 99% on thor then it means you have dish pointing directly at thor, you dont need 99% so connect up 4.8east, select a channel and say its 59% then move whole dish assembly , not a lot only fractions and get over 70% then check thor if thats still 90% or better move a bit more. Once you have best possible signal on both sats then you can tweak the lnbs, but that may not even be neccessay. NB You dont skew a dish you only skew an lnb. In your fisrt post it says skew for 0.8thor is 7.6% and if you look closely at top of lnb you will see lines, dead straight is 0% each one is 5% and it can be either left or right. You skew when looking from the front so again on first post I would turn lnb to the right or clockwise. Do same for other lnb uSing dishpointer reference.


    There is another step in the process and that is tuning the lnb for the dish, called focal length, what you can do is move lnb in and out from dish but again your block may be configured correct from the outset. You would be surprised what moving lnb towards dish or away from dish can do.


    The end result is a compromise as you are not pointing directly as either satelite but in your location you should get a very good signal on both.


    Why are you using a diseq switch?


    NB when adjusting LNB make a note of the existing position first.


    On your photo it should read other way round, thor is astra astra is thor, its called a mirror image, the signal hits dish on right and bounces back to the left so east is right and west is left!!! did I just write that:clap:

    Edited once, last by bmitie ().

    Quote from joeuser

    Maybe look closer at which channels you receive and which ones you don't and see if there is a pattern of only V or H or Hi or Low.


    Here are the channels that I recieve (wrapped in code element so the post will be shorter):


    header: #, name, pos, freq, prov, sid, Ch.No, Type



    I mounted the diseqc on the outer wall. This way I only had to drill one hole for one cable. It also has a plastic cover which makes it waterproof. Was that a bad idea?
    I will try your suggestions with al jazeera and the other stuff tomorrow ! :)

    yes you have 2 tuners on solo2 so two cables required, then you can record on one sat and watch on another, hole for 2 cables is not much bigger.


    Just load a satlelitelisting that has all the sats, I use catseyes then select 0.8w go to al jazeera etc, then select 4.8e I found quite a few free to air, a open is music. you can then use dremabox edit to delete the other sats etc

    Edited once, last by bmitie ().

    Quote from bmitie

    yes you have 2 tuners on solo2 so two cables required, then you can record on one sat and watch on another, hole for 2 cables is not much bigger.


    Just load a satlelitelisting that has all the sats, I use catseyes then select 0.8w go to al jazeera etc, then select 4.8e I found quite a few free to air, a open is music. you can then use dremabox edit to delete the other sats etc


    I got my signal meter today. Managed to get a lock on both sattelites. Got around 800 services on Thor and 500 on Astra. Some channels are on 99% SNR some are lower, but I am satisfied :)!


    Catseyes is not available for my version of Black Hole. At least not through Addons -> Addons Download Manager -> Black Hole Addons Plugins. AutoBouquetsMaker only finds the two transponders that were available when i first installed it. Tried reinstalling but the list of transponders remains the same.


    The next step is to create some nice bouquets for these sattelites :)


    Thanks for all the help everyone!


    // Edit: Just figured out catseye is a channel list supposed to be managed by an editor, and not an addon

    Edited 2 times, last by wabbit ().

General Satellite & Installation Support Forum

Support for LNBs, Single satellite, motorised and multi-satellite systems. DiSEqC switches, positioners, motors, actuators, dish-alignment help.

Participate now!

Don’t have an account yet? Register yourself now and be a part of our community!

Register Yourself Login