Posts by supwiddiss

Some work you do on your own.
Use a channel editor and create bouquets for channels on satellites.
Rename them to their respective channel names. Reorder them.
If a channel cannot be viewed due to many different reasons. Delete them.
Save back to the receiver. And call it a day.

Well we need to keep a chin up and maintain our composures. With a bit of levity.
At least you can draw and paint good? Oops!!!

I have found (For you) additional information for the dish you have.
And as is widely posted. There seems to be two different dish offset angles.
And this is why it is very important to do the proper modification to your dish mount by drilling the holes.
It will let you make the wider range of adjustments. Should we need them.

I am on the assumption of a 22.5 degree offset (reflection) angle of your dish.
I found (for you) another Channel Master 1.2m dish manual.
In it, it states the offset, reflection, or as is stated the beam angle is 16.97 degrees.

We will address that once you mark and drill the holes in your motor mount.
Just find where you could drill them to give a larger movement of the dish mount like I have instructed you.
Let's keep this simple. Please.

Off Axis.jpgOn Axis.jpg

I have pretty much exhausted my efforts to convey the steps needed to do the modifications and perform a proper installation.

There is a comprehension problem here. And although not throwing fingers. Some things explained are just not being done in a timely manner.

There would be no wait to receive a new angle gauge if a trip to a local hardware store were made and a simple and inexpensive digital angle gauge were purchased.
I have stressed the importance of being able to resolve to 0.10 degrees.
These very small adjustments will need to be made during the very small tracking errors are corrected after installation and the first satellite is received.
No exceptions.

As we are having major comprehension issues. And I have adhered to the initial request to provide clear and concise illustrations to assist.
All I can do at this point is make a few suggestions.
The last post by Jenseneverest is exactly what I have instructed in many different illustrations.
This should explain what is exactly needed to get the motor on the pole and the dish at the proper angles.

It's easy as pie. The intention is to get the dish to "look at" satellites perpendicular (90 degrees) to the elevation angle that the motor has to be tilted to match the latitude of the current location.

As fortification. I went to the local hangout last night.
Opened this post.
There were a few carpenters, auto mechanics, and just guys who like fabricating and doing mechanical things.
I explained what was required. Gave the concept. And after a question or two by them. They "Got It".

So. There are a few easy solutions.
One being print every illustration that pertains to what is needed.
Get a friend. A local carpenter. A guy who is always tinkering with his car. Somebody who fabricates and welds.
A lawn mower repair guy.
Somebody who enjoys messing with things.
Take your motor and dish mount.
Show them the illustrations and ask if they could perform the modification and set up the motor/dish angles so that reattaching the dish to the mounting plate would get the dish pointing at the correct angle needed. With declination added.

It is just too easy. It really is.
And I am left with a sense of failure.

I would offer. If you found a person who understands what is needed.
To gladly give my Google phone number. My current cell phone plan only allows calls in the USA.
Or a video call such as Zoom.
There we could together place the motor and dish mount on the pole or a vice.
Determine the correct angular settings. Or if new mounting holes have to be drilled.
I have a feeling of failure.

4 people having a cold beer "got it" in less than a minute. And here we have how many pages and how many clear and concise illustrations with explanations of the steps needed and if any modifications will have to be made. And how to do it.

I will be willing to give this one more shot. Just one. Before you will be forced to hand this off to a person who immediately can understand the process.

I do not think adequate effort is being given to try and understand the basic concepts.
Manuals explain what is needed.
Perhaps the dish mount may not actually be designed for this particular motor.
But with a bit of effort.
Angle measurement.
Paying attention and trying to learn and actually absorbing the basic concepts.
I have failed and am left at a total loss and waste of time on my part.
And in all good faith to assist in this project.

"use your inclinometer to set the mounting plate angle to elevation angle minus the dish off 22.5 degrees"

so i need to use my inclinometer to set the mounting plate angle to 22.5 degrees?" how can i do that?? PLEASE EXPLAIN HOW?

Really? You're pranking me right?
So step backwards and look at the mission.

Why not try to put the motor horizontally and think a bit.
Try a different approach. Put the motor angle like the picture shows. At 90 on the bracket scale.
Hopefully laying your level, angle meter across the mount bracket on the motor gives the same.

Got a 0 degree reference now?
If you make an imaginary line through the center of the motor shaft it's level too?
Apply yourself man. Come on.

Put your dish bracket across the motor brackets.
Tilt it so the right side (adjustable side) tilts 22.5 degrees.
You have to see that. Yeah?

Can you put the adjustable brackets on and bolt that side up snug?
And keep that 22.5 degree angle?

And then mark on the bottom motor bracket where you need to drill your new holes.

Remove the dish bracket completely. Because that's what a good fabricator would do.
And I'm an excellent one. The only braggery you will hear.

With new holes drilled. All you need to do is bolt it all back up.
Before you tighten the bolts make sure the dish bracket is at the correct offset angle.

Please tell me right now.
If left on your own would you really have been able to figure this out on your own.
This is really simple measurements. I mean super simple.
And figuring out what it would have taken to get the dish offset angle by drilling a few new holes is simple.

Remember when I mentioned 'cut, grind, do what ever is needed'?
And you expressed that the lower motor bracket interfered with you tilting the dish bracket any further?
All it would have taken is for you to look at the problem and find the obtruction. And fix it.
Two simple holes drilled in this case. Such a simple diagnosis and fix.
You're telling me that you could not apply yourself and figure that out on your own?

HowDOIAngleMyBracket.jpg

(oh christ that's right. 1 tuner port, 1 dish controller. i feel like a dumbass)

lol!

Time to get to work dude.
Nothing matters but getting that dish so that once planted level on the ground. It cannot move at all.
If you have to pound a chunk of rebar in the dirt and place the whole dish mount over it. Do it.
If you need to pound pieces of rebar in each inner corner of the ground mount. Do it.
The dish cannot move at all and the pole must remain level vertically all the way around.
Yeah....

Looking at the motor in the left photo. The bracket is cocked to the left a touch. That's a no-go. 0 reference it.

Your question of what satellites you can get. Did you download a phone app that allows you to visually look at the sky through the camera and see where in the sky satellites actually are?

When your dish is properly setup and all of the angles and tweaks are made.
The only limit of what you should be able to receive is your visible horizon. If you have a clear view of the sky. You will be able to aim at any satellite in it.
And your dish will track the arc as accurately as you are able to set your dish up to track it.

You will not have 100% success at the first try. Tried to tell you. 0.10 degree is going to make huge differences in getting the dish to aim dead nuts at any satellite you steer it to. Period. If you're sloppy, it will be sloppy.
It is not plug and play.

Start looking at and trying to understand the tracking error sheet I posted earlier. Print it out.
You will be doing a lot of thinking.
Do I swing the dish a touch E or W?
Do I need to give it a little more elevation or maybe a little less?
How about declination?
"Elevation is for tracking errors more towards the top, Declination helps at the lower arc".
A combination of every setting made perfect.
And you're doing the Cha Cha.

BTW
BTW 0 Is towards my house not in the middle did you know that?

What the hell does that have to do with the motor being cocked off to the left? 0 it with the mark on the motor housing.

Oh. You gonna' make me work some more? You hiring?

Okay. Back to Corel I guess.
Alrightey then

You mentioned that you could not get the dish bracket to tilt any further back.
Take a look. Keep the upper brackets attached.
Remove the bottom bolts.
Get your angles.
Mark the bottom motor bracket and center punch for drilling.
Remove the dish mount or get it out of the way.
Drill new holes further forward in the lower motor bracket.
Bolt the lower slotted holes of the dish bracket in the new motor bracket bolt holes.

Relocated Bracket Holes.jpg

Nice progress. A pleasant surprise.
Suggestion would be to scrape and level the ground under the base so you're assured you won't get any wobble at all. Then if you weight it with concrete blocks or whatever. Just make sure the mounting pole always stays plumb. We're going to need that definitely. In other words. No wooden blocks.
Soak the ground with a bucket of hot water. Whatever is needed so that pole stays plumb and no wobble at all.

And now I can see your biggest issue when you were describing you couldn't tilt the dish back because the dish mount interfered with the lower motor bracket.
*Ding*. Light bulbs light up!
Ummmm.... have a drill and bits? Accurately layout and drill bolt holes that are further to the front of the lower motor bracket.
See how close the upper slotted holes come to the front of that side? Yeah!
But you knew that didn't you?
Now that you have the elevation set. And we've determined the dish bracket angle fairly close.
Hold the bracket. Or just bolt it up to the slotted upper brackets.
Get your inclinometer and set that angle. Then mark where you would drill the holes.
Of course that rear plate angle is without the declination added in.
And leaving some adjustment in the top slotted brackets for tweaking it all in.
Easy!

Oh and yes. Get that motor set exactly to the 0 mark on it. No biggie.

Haha. You gonna' ever remove that Fragile tape?

I dug up a photo from the same setup located in London.
Had to investigate and did some math.
Dropped a few guidelines and rotated the picture so that the pole was plumb with the vertical guideline.

Dropped angled guides at the motor shaft. Which is the same as the latitude.
Pulled up Dish Pointer. Got this:London.png

Calculated bit.
Vertical is 0 or 360 degrees, 180 degrees on the bottom.
Right is 90 degrees, left is 270 degrees.

Motor elevation:
360 -51.5 = 308.5
Exactly what angle my guideline was set to.
Cool!

Then. Dropped a guideline across the dish face. Duplicated it at the back of the dish across the dish mount plate.

The math on this one got me a little bit.
And got:

Turn 270 degrees into 0 degrees.
Elevate the motor 51.5 degrees from horizontal.

Add 22.5 degrees to that for dish offset. 77.6 degrees.
Add 7.4 degrees to that for declination. 85 degrees.
Subtract 85 degrees from 360 degrees (top of pole being 360). Got 275 degrees.
Close enough for a fuzzy photo.
The angles came up a few digits off. Considering I wasn't looking exactly across the dish face from the rim. Acceptable.

But the math works.

So I would check everything twice.
It may be the fact you can use the slotted brackets. Because the photo also shown them being used.

London.jpg

Good Luck!
And....Straight from the Andrews. Who Channel Master, Raven also made. Manual.

When it's all said and done. That damned dish better be looking up in the sky directly at satellites on the "Beam Axis".

Grind, cut, make brackets.

Elevation.
Beam Axis.
Declination.

In that order.

Andrews.jpg

It's a bad week for movable dishes for real.

Hey. Why not do like Jens asks and post some photos of your tuner setup screen.
And your vbox display as you store the settings.

Either your vbox is defective. Or far fetched as it may seem.
You ain't doing something right.

Photos..photos....and more photos.
And the manual for your vbox. Post it too.

Clai. I have the manual. It is with the assumption that previous experience is a given.
The slotted dish bracket tells me that the dish would work with with other motors.
It would be the happiest with an actuator driven polar mount.
But anything can be done if you apply yourself.
Mickey Mouse. "Rigged". Realizing that accuracy and a rock-solid mount I'm afraid will be a realizaion that will become very apparent later.
Ku band is a bit forgiving. I never used my receiver setting for "Filter out adjacent satellites by X degrees" for C band.
Once I put a sidecar Ku lnbf, a Geosat Pro.....made for a smaller dish....on mine.

Scanning a few real strong satellites turned up a whole lot of transponders that 'shouldn't have been'.
Normally for C band I get maybe 30 encoder counts per 2 degree spaced satellites. 15/degrees.
And signal loss 10 counts either side of "dead nuts"
With Ku band. I get signal overlap looking for and scanning 2 degree spaced sats. And 20-25 encoder counts when signal lock happens.

Dan. I see what you have done. Zippie ties are okay.
Did you get an idea on how far your angles are off.
As I said. Do you think raising the mounting bracket so that the bottom slotted holes are higher would allow you to get the required angle?
That would be your latitude angle. And then another 22.5 degrees ( lowering the lnbf more towards the ground.
Maybe cut or bevel off the corner of the motor bracket so the plate could tilt back more?

And. Are you following me on exactly why it is important to get the elevation angle of the motor set to precisely to your latitude?
Understand that your dish. If the back mounting plate and the front of the dish rim (vertically) were the same angle as your elevation angle.
Will be "looking" 22.5 degrees too high in the sky?
It's cool. Just reply yes or no. And if no. Why.

Quote from lme

Quote from supwiddiss

Hi guys. Smithsonian on 127 W c band. Oscam is decoding but no audio/video. Is it the same for you? If it is could I grab your key please?

These keys work on tp 3980H:

P 00 F74441D2F3C4AA ; added by Emu Mon Nov 6 10:00:54 2023 UA: 0061BCEF

P 01 87934134172AEF ; added by Emu Mon Nov 6 10:00:54 2023 UA: 0061BCEF

From this emm:

P 0061BCEF 00 DBA91DB1FE9899

Just because I scanned the tp on a dummy sat I made in my satellite.xml.
Got a different hash. And setup the keys file to use the ecm and emm keys.

Still no audio or video. VLC doesn't tell me much. I'm not smart enough to use one of the dvb analyzers.
I thought it had something to do with an unreported change to 4:2:2. VLC would have streamed that.

And no hints on the satellite chart sites like Lyngsat that tell much.
No biggie. It was all about plane disasters.
But still........

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I'll have to make a few statements and then step aside until positive progress is made here. Sorry.

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Banjo has posted photos that show a working setup. A great place to start.

If all of his angles were in fact setup properly then there is no reason at all receiving satellites in the Clarke Belt was not possible.

....................................................................................................................................

I looked at the specs for this dish. They started out as Andrews, then either Raven or Channel master.

And the look angle (offset angle) are all stated as being 22.5 - 22.6 degrees.

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I cropped one of the photos Banjo posted.

If everything was setup properly then the black line through the centerline of the motor shaft will be equal to his latitude.

Without a doubt.

The yellow line would represent a straight edge, initially extended from the absolute top of the dish to the center of the bottom LNBF support arm.
The yellow line would be his latitude angle.

And the offset angle of the dish added so that satellite signal reflects correctly into the LNBF throat.
Then. We add the proper declination angle. Which is illustrated by the final black line across the front of the dish reflector.

Banjo.jpg

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Because I do not have a Raven dish like this. My assumption would be that if you measured the angle of the dish face (black line).

And the flat part of the dish mounting plate.

They will be the exact same. Parallel to each other.

Correct me. Banjo?

..........................................................................................................................................

A polar mount is much less tolerant of even the slightest movement.
A wood pallet just won't hack it. At the very least a flat, compacted sand and gravel base on the ground and then a precast concrete slab with cable extensions at 3 corners to the support pole.
But I think we haven't reached that point yet.
If the most important thing of your dish mount is being able to string trim around it. Wrong approach.

................................................................................................................................................

An inclinometer was just fine for setting up stationary dishes.
But in this day and age a digital version is just a no-brainer.

Especially for setting up a polar mount. You will be able to better keep track of the exact and miniscule changes you are making.

You will not see 0.10 degree changes with an analog gauge.
For awhile I was using my phone app. But steel, iron close to it made for measurement errors.
There are many versions of these. Very inexpensive to the sky's the limit.
I have this. It has been used for many upgrades to the type of dishes in my area that sat for years.
They are an invaluable tool.

Klein.jpg

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If for some reason the interfering points of the mount that were shown keep from getting the angles setup.
A solution needs to be found. I would unbolt the dish from the mounting plate.
I see the lower slotted bolt holes. Wondering if lifting the whole bracket would allow more adjustment.
So instead of the bracket resting the bottom bolts. Lift the whole bracket?
Drill a few holes? We need to find something that will allow us to get the proper geometry.
Grind or cut off off the interfering part of the motor bracket?
Something must be done.

But then again. Banjo was able to get his working.
Was he able to track the entire satellite arc? Or just a few at the top?

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Figure it out. Do what is needed.
Make it work. Then make it pretty.
Mock it up without the dish bolted on.
Get that mounting base 100% solid. It cannot wobble at all.
I know without a doubt I could do it.

...........................................................................................................................................................

I'm seeing a lot of worrying and not enough doing here.

It is really time to also look at and digest the satellite arc error chart I posted earlier.
As mentioned. Getting a few satellites close together in the arc.
Errors in mounting angles are less noticeable.
Knowing why and being able to figure out how signal starts to decrease, why you cannot get a signal.
Figuring out that pushing/pulling on the bottom of the dish. Grabbing the outer rim to move it East or West a little bit.
A combination of both.
Making 0.10 degree adjustments.

..............................................................................................................................................................

Tapping out. But not dropping out.

It's all here. It's up to you now.

Lookee here. Easy as pie.
I have edited your photo so that the pole everything is mounted to is vertical.

Orange line.

Your latitude angle. 56.2 degrees?

The scale closest to the motor. Set it to that.

And the motor shaft. Where the whole mount rotates when you apply power to it.
An imaginary line right through the center of the shaft. It will also equal 56.2 degrees from horizontal.

Yellow line.

The back of the flat dish mounting plate.

That is your latitude. Minus the dish offset of 22.5 degrees.
So orange line + yellow line will be 75.1 degrees.

Put the plate at that angle.

Tie the dish exactly there with wire like I asked you to.
Then turn the slotted bracket at the motor towards the dish mount where you did unbolt it
Send photos.
Ba-da-bing.
No more, no less. For now.

I really am not interested in any fancy stuff right now.
You and I have a mission. Make it work and then make it pretty.
Get some rusty steel bar stock. Some flat iron. Sand it. Paint it.
Drill holes in it so you can get your dish setup and get a satellite signal.
Patience is wearing thin. Don't put the cart in front of the horse. Certainly don't count your chickens before the eggs hatch.
What if I don't want to wait for tomorrow? I might have more things to do.....think about that. It's cold and snowing and snotty here too.

More_Angles.jpg

Progress!!! Yay!!

Could you do us a favor?
Put the elevation for the motor set to your latitude angle?
Then.....
Using pieces of wire or whatever......
Twist them in the upper slotted dish mounting plate holes.
Then tilt the entire dish back until....
The flat plate is the 22.5 degrees more than the elevation angle?
The dish would be tilting a little bit more towards the ground. But of course not at the ground.
Twist the wire around the bolts where your slotted mounting brackets are still attached to the motor
Then please turn one of the slotted brackets towards the slotted holes on the dish mount where they were bolted to.
And send a photo or photos showing the angles you have everything set to at that point

Maybe we can get somewhere.

For claihew:

"I would told you to get a Gilbertini 1.25m dish and a superior dark motor. And I would have stressed the need for it to be on a flat base."

The dish he has right now will work just fine once all of the variables are sorted out.

Yes! A flat base....maybe for a fixed dish. Nothing less than a rigid mounting on a concrete base that is immovable.

Absolutely a pole in the ground deep enough to be below the frost line and filled with concrete.
Certainly we have a "rigged" job here. Just the slightest movement of what he currently has and the alignment goes all to s**t.

"I would told you to get a Gilbertini 1.25m dish and a superior dark motor"

Obviously he does not. Read back and perhaps look at the many different brands of dishes that use these motors.
The Channel Master, Raven dish. Same exact type made by many. Andrews.
Perhaps they fare better with a true, robust polar or horizon to horizon mount. I'm pretty sure it weighs quite a bit.
But they are Excellent dishes.

"the one where someone told you to remove brackets was a mistake"

In this case. Maybe not so much. If removing the brackets, moving them to the bottom (as I suspect is exactly what is needed), gets the required angles and geometry in line. It HAS to be done. If removing the brackets entirely and concentrating on exactly what is needed to get the angles correct. With a margin of adjutability.
Somebody has to step up.

"Getting"....."Understanding" the whole concept of getting preliminary geometry and angles setup is what the OP is not understanding.
This is a big problem. A person familiar with steerable dishes would "get it" immediately.
As inexpensive as they are. A digital angle gauge will allow to do an accurate setup. And keep track of miniscule changes throughout the process.
Those miniscule tweaks will need to be done.
An inclinometer just won't hack it for a nubie.

"Focal length for the LNB is very important and I don't know if the lnb you are using sits in the bracket at the correct focal length"

He had stated that he had a signal. Then lost it. Suspecting the LNBF position has not changed. But certainly Sharpie marks are made to return it to the last known place it was.


Okay. Now.
I'm not being rude. And. So you know. I'm not very good at trainees in my industry telling me anything at all.
Somebody has a mental block. Every single effort is being given to help you out.
Jenseneverest provided links that hopefully could steer you in the right direction. Perhaps they are full of tekkie jargon.
I'm taking extensive effort to give you all of the information to get what you have at the very least aligned correctly.
And all I keep getting back from you is bullshit.

Remove. loosen, movethe brackets to the bottom of the mount.
Use ratchet straps, boards to hold the reflector in place while you measure all of the angles needed.
Maybe you'll have to drill a few holes. Maybe you'll have to cut the brackets. Or find a place you can get a few pieces of steel.
Nothing matters until you can get your dish and motor angles precicely where they need.
AND THEN I SEE WHERE YOU HAD NOT EVEN MOVED THE DECLINATION ADJUSTMENT TO THE 0 REFERENCE. YOU DIDN'T EVEN DO THAT ONE THING.

Either you start comprehending all that is given you here. And being proactive and perform the steps needed.
Or find an experienced installer. Who......will refuse because your dish is not mounted on the ground where it will not ever deviate.

Motor set to 0

Elevation

Dish set on the mount to compensate for the offset

Declination.

That's ALL you need to do. And be a good photographer.

Listen. And DO IT.

Look at old Rusty here.

We have elevation. Shown in red.
We have declination. Shown in blue.
The only thing missing is the 22.5 degree "drop" needed if I were to bolt your dish to my mount.
As you see from the slotted adjustments where the blue angle is. It could be done.

Get busy.

FiberglassEl_Dec.jpg

Hi guys. Smithsonian on 127 W c band. Oscam is decoding but no audio/video. Is it the same for you? If it is could I grab your key please?

Quote from Dan Addison

Quote from supwiddiss

Quote from Dan Addison

Quote from supwiddiss

Quote from Dan Addison

Quote from supwiddiss

Holy Moley!!!

ok thanks will do that! (possibly tomorrow, possibly Saturday - depending on weather) < Currently -1 here

Be Watney.
"Science the s**t out of it"

so something like this then? Varnished Cold-pressed steel Equal L-shaped Angle profile, (L)1m (W)27mm | DIY at B&Q

The good Lordeth gaveth you a braineth in your gourd. You figure it out.
Make it work. Then make it pretty. It ain't-a-gonna'-lick-itself.
I can think of 47 ways to get the preliminary alignment done.
Screw the L-shaped stuff. That's why God gave us washers and spacers.
Mine works perfectly from 131 W all the way out to 30 W.
Dish_Back.jpgDish_Back_Cropped.jpg

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so drill holes like this? (found on satsuk)

this quote was attached:

"In the UK the extenders need to be at the top, which is why I needed to drill the 2 holes. I hope this makes it clearer."

"I have altered aceb's photo to show you where I had to drill the holes.

In aceb's photo he has switched the bottom bracket, with the top, so although the arrows are drawn on the top bracket, on my motor, and those shipped, this bracket is at the bottom, tha same as you currently have it set up."

"The blue arrows are where the original holes are, the red are where I drilled new holes, in the silver bracket, about half way between the original and the front of the bracket. This solved all my problems as I could then fit the original, stronger, bolts, and the adapter plate fitted as it should.

This motor seems to be for the American market and so the extension brackets, as used in America, would go on the bottom, and not the top, which means they would have no problem in the USA. In the UK the extenders need to be at the top, which is why I needed to drill the 2 holes.

I hope this makes it clearer."

from the post on satsuk

AHOOOGAH! NOW HEAR THIS. THIS IS THE CAPTAIN.

Where does that crap come from? UK, France, Canada, USA. We all share same latitudes.
And satellites are still out there some 22,000 miles in space above the equator.
You said that the extension brackets would not attach at the bottom. Then you hint that they can.
Holy crap, man! If they can be. Then do it.
We need to review our rock we call home on a stick impaled through Santas home to where the penguins roam.
"For the American Market". My latitude is 41.7 degrees North. Find me one. Just one European place with the same.
If the extension brackets in fact work on the bottom here. Dammit. They will work there.
And I dont want no wussie plumb bob or and elementary school compass. I want a bonafide digital angle gauge employed pronto.
With at least one decimal place resolution.
Don't get me riled no more. It's all here. Snort a few lines of Ex Lax and clear the crap out of that gourd and pay attention.

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