Channel Hash / EMM ECM Suggestions help request.

This is on 127W tp 4100H. Using the standard method and new group id method for this tp. It has BBC which changes keys often. Not always updating the pv key and ua.
When manually updating the key and restarting oscam. The channels that all cleared would not.
As a test I scanned the same tp on a dummy sat. created in satellites.xml.
The channels were found to have a new channel hash.
The same tp scanned on the target sat. retained the same channel hash. I assigned unique group id's to each hash.
Ex: P 30E30F2D GROUP 9127 ; P FA44CC36 group A127 ;

A127 did not exist before. I would update keys for 9127. I know the keys were good because the channel is on another sat and always did clear before.
But they did not suddenly.

If you're sill following.I got curious and scanned on the "dummy sat. Moved the sacanned channels to the target bouquet.
Discovered the new group of (emu) channel hash: FA44CC36, group id: 0000

Gave it a group id: A127. And set up the format as should be.
The channels cleared for the new A127 id.

Without changing anything I edited 9127 (which had good keys but not clearing channels) to 9A27.
Restarted oscam. The channels now clear.

FYI. Also using the standard format for the tp.

If this all makes sense. What would make this happen? Are there other snippets of files in other oscam-emu folders that could be purged to straighten the behaviour out and restore normal function?

I can supply configs, logs, etc. if anyone has a clue.
Running Mohamed's 11713. But this has been going on since implementing the channel hash method randomly on other sat/tp's for some while now.
Thanks for any tips!

Oh it's crazy. Let's see here.

There are 6 pv channels on this tp. After the initial scan I get in live log for example:

(emu) channel hash: 52D5DD4A, group id: 0000
And every channel in that tp shows the same, although they do not clear at this moment.
Cool?

So in my keys file it gets this format:

P 52D5DD4A group 0101 ;

P 0101FFFF 00 0011AC66CB543F ;

P 0101FFFF 01 A128ECC63B7FB5 ;

Keys are only an example. Also tried the FFFF lines above the group assignment as I see in some key files here.
I think 'someone' mentioned that oscam scans bottom to top. Hmmm.
A restart of oscam then clears all channels for the tp.
For awhile. Until I'm watching one and new keys get written at the bottom of the keys file.
And that key is verified to have the same SID of the channel I'm watching. Both the 00 & 01 UA.
And a pair of P 0101FFFF UA keys. 00 & 01.
Just like normal.

Okay then. I leave that channel and go to BBC (It opened before). And wait. And wait more.
Key not found forever.
So I add the newly added keys back in the tp section of the file. Restat oscam. One or two channels now clear. Or not!. If not I cold boot the osmio4k.
Still no joy.
Still tuned in? It get's "funner". Or "more funner"!!

So. What the hell. I build a UA key. Like this:
P 0101 00613875 F5482A87516975 ; added by Emu Fri Sep 30 04:44:17 2022 UA: 00613875

P 010100C6 00 00000000000000 ;

P 010100C6 01 00000000000000 ;
(again, keys only an example).
....and so on and so on for each SID in the group to get a set of dummy pairs. Restart osam.

Nope. Won't clear. What's worse is now the old key that was working to clear all channels will not.
IF I wait until the channels expire (BBC might last 2 days and all others follow). And THEN enter the new UA.
Nope again!

Second to last I build a group/sid key just like good old times for each channel.
No joy there either after a restart of oscam/restart receiver.
This happens randomly for other sats also. I think I'm doing it like the book says.

Last ditch is to fire up thelastdrakkar and grab 25-50k EMM keys and send them through pvhe to get a set of keys.
And they work if they are valid. For a few days.

So. In desperation. I created a dummy transponder in satellites.xml. So my dish wouldn't move. And to get a new channel hash.
Scan the tp. Delete the channel(s) that do not clear in E-Channelizer in the sat bouquet and then move the newly scanned replacements into the bouquet.
Format the softcam.keys file for the new hash/group. And all that crap.
Now the channels open fairly reliably. Until BBC craps out again. Then I get the dice out.
It seems to be the only transponder that does this. And this is a few month old complete rebuild of my keys file.
To start out clean using the new hash method.

I need a beer.

Something escaped me in my rant.
Initially before assigning a group to the hash, the actual hash alternated between 2 different ones before settling down to one steady one.
Of course that's the one I then used. It was doing the funky chicken thing.

(emu) channel hash: 30E30F2D, group id: 0000

next time....
(emu) channel hash: F8AC4363, group id: 0000
eventually (not long) settling on the first one. And that's the one I gave a group id to.

Still learning this one method of course.
From this very helpful reply to one of my requests:

RE: Softcam.Key Enigma2 for American Satellites

Is it permissible to use more than one group id for different hashes?
And this. Without a group id leading the F's. Would it be considered non-functional?

P 0000FFFF 00 00000000000000 ; ECM Key

P 0000FFFF 01 00000000000000 ; ECM Key

Haha. Almost done! 2 more things.
What's correct here? I see formats all over the place.
Just want to make sure someone hasn't slipped in something new that streamboard or the wiki hasn't updated.

P 52D5DD4A group 2101 ; Duzzit go here?

P 2101FFFF 01 4DBD0416207780 ; ECM ;

P 2101FFFF 00 4172015CE56CA0 ; ECM ;

P 52D5DD4A group 2101 ; Or duzzit go HERE?

P 2101 006072A2 4DBD0416207780 ; added by Emu Sun Oct 2 23:04:53 2022 UA: 005BD33B

P 2101 006072A2 00 4DBD0416207780 ; added by Emu Sun Oct 2 23:04:53 2022 UA: 005BD33B

Keep the zereoes (zed's) or not.

Wow. Any insight would help. Even from the "big guys" here.
Jen's always comes through.

Oh yeah. Doesn't that mess up the childrens song a whole lot?
A-B-Ceeee-Deeee-E-F-G. Achh-I-J-K-Ellameno-Pee............
.........Double-you-X-Y-and-ZED!!!!
ZED??? Zed Leppelin?
Where the Heck did Zed come from?
And kilowatts? What happened to good 'ole Horsepower?
And a pint. A pint-o-Guiness works. But cold...chilled. Not warm so it tastes like carb cleaner!!
(i'm so messed up on conventions these days. where's good old gorski when you need him?? he'll set me bluddy straight!!)
lol!!!

Yes. The alternating hash freaked me out a bit. Hence, scanning the channels on the 'dummy' sat. I created in my xml.
Then it was pick and choose who to move into the bouquet. I guess it's working pretty good.
Perhaps I didn't catch something.
Your EMM has no dummies under it. Does it not need something like this to work?

P 016E 004F1DF6 28D3FD510949EB ;EMM Key

P 016E0193 00 00000000000000 ; ECM Key 193 is the SID

P 016E0193 01 00000000000000 ; ECM Key 193 is the SID
...and so on and so on for each SID.

mmmm guiness...perhaps in a few hours.