Help Correctly Aligning My 1.2M Channel Master Dish and moteck H-H180 motor

There are 244 replies in this Thread which was already clicked 9,766 times. The last Post () by supwiddiss.

    Your manual shows a completely different dish mounting bracket.
    With slotted adjustments separate of the motor declination adjustment.

    Hence your brain fart.

    Look. Absorb this. Photo attached.

    Prime focus dishes "look" straight at satellites in the sky. And the declination angle is determined when you set the correct elevation.
    And lower the dish according to the declination angle you're told.

    The rear plate is parallel with the dish face. This is parallel = and this is parallel ||

    Your offset dish. If the front surface, rear mounting plate, and ground pole. Were parallel to each other, | | |
    The dish would still be looking 22.5 degrees up in the sky.
    Because that is the specification of your dish. The offset angle is + 22.5 degrees.

    On my prime focus dish. To "look" at something straight across the yard. I point it straight to the object.

    Your dish, to "look" at something in the same place as me. The whole dish face would have to actually be pointed at the grass.
    You HAVE to see that........

    So no matter what your declination scale says. You have adjustments. You HAVE to get the dish mounting plate 22.5 degrees LOWER than the elevation angle.

    Get it? Set the declination scale at 0.
    Use your digital angle gauge flat on the back of the dish mounting plate.
    Adjust the dish brackets to to read your latitude. Which is 52.6 degrees.
    That angle should also be set on the elevation adjustment for your location. Which I take it is Norfolk, UK.

    Now your dish mount and elevation should be parallel. Remember | | to each other.


    Next you have to adjust the dish mounting plate LOWER. To compensate for the dish offset built into it.
    That is 22.5 degrees. It's "looking" too high in the sky right now.


    So. Subtract 52.6 - 22.5 degrees. That equals 30.1 degrees.
    Your dish is now aimed straight up in the sky over the equator.
    You NOW need to compensate for the declination.
    Declination for your area is 7.5 degrees.


    Subtract another 7.5 degrees. 30.1 - 7.5 equals 22.6 degrees.

    Lower the dish using the declination adjustment bolt if it will allow you to 7.5 degrees.


    PrimeOffset.jpg



    You must understand all of this. "Too Complicated" won't get it dude. If this is in fact too complicated after 47 helpful replies to a pretty easy install. You need assistance from somebody who does "get it".
    I've put this into Sesame Street for you.
    We all could have just said Go stab a pole in the dirt and good luck. Read the instructions.
    But we didn't.

    Now get outside and set that damned dish up.

    so you can understand me, your txt is Red mine is white:


    "Your manual shows a completely different dish mounting bracket." < well yeah obviously mines different, my mounting bracket came with this motor for this dish (uk stock)


    "The whole dish face would have to actually be pointed at the grass, You HAVE to see that........" < well yes it did point to the grass, but why would i want it to do that, theres no sats on the grass!


    "So no matter what your declination scale says. You have adjustments. You HAVE to get the dish mounting plate 22.5 degrees LOWER than the elevation angle." < impossible to do


    "Get it? Set the declination scale at 0, Use your digital angle gauge flat on the back of the dish mounting plate, Adjust the dish brackets to to read your latitude. Which is 52.6 degrees, That angle should also be set on the elevation adjustment for your location. Which I take it is Norfolk, UK." < so your now saying to set my declination scale to 0, correct??


    "Next you have to adjust the dish mounting plate LOWER. To compensate for the dish offset built into it, That is 22.5 degrees. It's "looking" too high in the sky right now." < totally impossible to do!! <


    "So. Subtract 52.6 - 22.5 degrees. That equals 30.1 degrees, Your dish is now aimed straight up in the sky over the equator, You NOW need to compensate for the declination, Declination for your area is 7.5 degrees, Subtract another 7.5 degrees. 30.1 - 7.5 equals 22.6 degrees, Lower the dish using the declination adjustment bolt if it will allow you to 7.5 degrees, Now your dish mount and elevation should be parallel. Remember | | to each other" < thats confusing as hell <<


    "Lower the dish using the declination adjustment bolt if it will allow you to 7.5 degrees" < Screw A the very long screw??


    "You must understand all of this. "Too Complicated" won't get it dude. If this is in fact too complicated after 47 helpful replies to a pretty easy install. You need assistance from somebody who does "get it". I've put this into Sesame Street for you, We all could have just said Go stab a pole in the dirt and good luck. Read the instructions, But we didn't, Now get outside and set that damned dish up."


    "https://www.linuxsat-support.c…t/251178-primeoffset-jpg/" < totally wrong dishes/mounts etc etc etc at least look at my pics first!!!!!


    "If this is in fact too complicated after 47 helpful replies to a pretty easy install. You need assistance from somebody who does "get it". < each one of them telling me different deinclination, and elevation, < thats whats confusing you know, each reply i had says different things you know.... you really should read them, dont make me laugh jimmy!!


    so what you are now saying is i should set my Declination to 0? and my Elevation to 22.5??


    STOP BEING RUDE


    FYI ITS DARK HERE NOW


    Ps if its that easy u come and do it for me!!


    i hope you can read and understand what im saying, your NOT Reading my posts you are just replying with random stuff!!


    ps here's a easy explanation for you to understand AUTISM I HOPE YOU CAN READ AND UNDERSTAND THAT!!


    Autism spectrum disorder (ASD) is a developmental disability caused by differences in the brain. Some people with ASD have a known difference, such as a genetic condition. Other causes are not yet known. Scientists believe there are multiple causes of ASD that act together to change the most common ways people develop. We still have much to learn about these causes and how they impact people with ASD.


    People with ASD may behave, communicate, interact, and learn in ways that are different from most other people. There is often nothing about how they look that sets them apart from other people. The abilities of people with ASD can vary significantly. For example, some people with ASD may have advanced conversation skills whereas others may be nonverbal. Some people with ASD need a lot of help in their daily lives; others can work and live with little to no support.


    i mean its not like i didn't say i had AUTISM!!


    SHOW ME RESPECT WILL YOU!!


    your next reply better start with SORRY DAN!!

    • Official Post

    supwiddiss

    Has taken the time to give you exacting details of how to calculate everything, very precisely.

    Which is exactly what i would have done if you failed to get the dish to trac correctly using my dish face angle as a quick hack.

    I was hoping you would at least get signal first on 0.8w (which BTW is easily obtained even on my 60cm mesh dish....With a 1.2m dish your taking a TANK to a gun fight. )


    If any of the terms he has used are not understood, google them for a better explanation.

    Here are some links that may help.


    Offset dish elevation angle set up and pointing.


    Satellite finder, how to point dish, magnetic north az el calculator


    Azimuth and Elevation for satellite dish pointing


    How to make an inclinometer


    Determining the focal length of a parabolic dish


    Explanation of Latitude and Longitude

    thanks but still (have a read)


    People with ASD may behave, communicate, interact, and learn in ways that are different from most other people. There is often nothing about how they look that sets them apart from other people. The abilities of people with ASD can vary significantly. For example, some people with ASD may have advanced conversation skills whereas others may be nonverbal. Some people with ASD need a lot of help in their daily lives; others can work and live with little to no support.

    • Official Post

    Dan i get that, that is why i was trying to keep it simple.

    Believe me when i say supwiddiss was not being rude, i have had many dealings with him over the years and he is a very clever "dude" with this stuff.

    Everyone here is trying to help, but the difference between a quick half baked quick install and a good calculated one is massive - especially if you want to use you new dish for feeds - some of those feeds have very weak signals.


    When you can, please take some pics of both your dish and your neighbours fence so we get an idea if that fence may be an issue or not ?

    Give this a rest for a few days untill you get your inclinometer, then set out on a sunny day with a plan to do this methodically..... its bloody minus 5 in the morning lol.

    Ok, well after work when its sunny i go outside, in the mornings i work so, yea i want to be able to start at thor 0.8w and track the arc, and i want to be able to get and lock onto feeds on most of them aswell, so am i now changing my deinclination to 0 & elevation to 22.5?? Might do it tomorrow if its nice

    Firstly. No attitude. No 85 point font. Not shouting. The mental block is yours. The frustration is also.
    This is why your post in satelliteguys was nixed.
    There are a few concepts you have to understand that you are just not getting.
    Because your post is so fragmented. List the post #'s you wish me to read.

    Firstly. Go to dishpointer and enter your location.
    Then from the list select Motorized True South / True North.
    Set your motor elevation to what youScreenshot 2024-01-17 at 14-00-50 DishPointer - Align your satellite dish.png are given for your latitude. Lock it down.
    Assure the dish is pointed true South. Not magnetic south as you would get using a magnetic compass.

    Your H-H mount is designed for both prime feed (LNBF at the center of the dish) and offset feed dishes (Like yours).
    Different offset dishes have different offset (reflection) angles.
    Hence the funky mounting bracket.

    The point at the grass thing is to open up your mind. It was not meant to be stupid. It was to try to explain to you why you need to mount your dish on the mount so that the reflection angle is equal to the elevation adjustment.
    Because if you set the dish mounting plate equal to the elevation of the motor.
    Your dish will be pointed 22.5 degrees higher in the sky.
    You MUST lower the whole dish by 22.5 degrees to get the reflection correct.

    Please look at and absorb the graphic.
    If you lived at the equator (of course you don't, I know).
    And you mounted a prime focus dish. Which reflects directly off of the face of the dish. Picture a magnifying makeup mirror.
    At the equator the elevation (latitude) is 0. So a dish of this type would be mounted facing straight up in the sky.

    If we put your dish on the mount the same way. It would be reflecting at an angle. 22.5 degrees for yours.
    So what do your do? You tip it so the LNB and entire face of the dish is 22.5 degrees lower.
    Then it too will be reflecting straight up in the sky.
    And FYI. If you did live on the equator. That is exactly how your dish would be mounted.
    When you steer it across the arc. It would swing directly overhead East to West.

    And that is why you need to get your reflecting angle on your mount to be the same as your latitude.
    Then you add the correct amount of declination with the adjustable bolt with degree scale closest to the dish you mentioned.

    No sir. I am not being rude at all. Do not take it that way.
    You wanted illustrations, you got them.PrimeRefReference.jpg

    Ok thanks i will go back on dishpointer and will set my dish to what it says with the info u just posted

    Ok, so according to dishpointer.com, when i selected my longitude and latitude and clicked Motorized Systems and clicked True South/True North


    Satellite Data:

    Name: True South / True North
    Distance: 38642km


    Dish Setup Data:

    Motor Latitude (Elevation): 52.8°
    Declination Angle: 7.5°

    Dish Elevation: --° < what about this??


    Silly Questions i guess:


    Do i set my Declination Angle: 7.5° ? < there isnt a 7.5 as it only goes 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 < so should i set it to 7 instead??


    Do i now set my Motor Latitude (Elevation): 52.8°?? < there isn't a 52.8° as it only goes 0,5,10,15,20,25,30,35,40,45,50,55,60,65,70,75,80,85,90 < so should i set it to 52 or 53 instead??


    im only asking so i know, and i guess because it says 7.5 (Declination) some how i have to work out how to set it to that??? and the same for the Motor Latitude (Elevation) to 52.8 (work out where 52.8 is)?? or ....


    and you are saying my dish should be pointing down to the grass when its correctly aligned? does my dish need to go even higher then?....


    just so im 10000% clear... is this correct for tracking the arc starting at/aligning to Thor 0.8w??


    See Again its different Declination and Elevation.....


    @supwiddiss, @jenseneverest


    Nice Picture BTW Looks good think i get that picture now......

    251183-primerefreference-jpg

    Dan can you do pics of how you have mounted all the rig? is it on a concrete base and bolted to the ground If its on a pole hold a spirit level on the vertical to show its dead straight and then on the mounting brackets on the horizontal to show its dead level. Then you can start aligning the rig.

    Dish Setup Data:


    Motor Latitude (Elevation): 52.8°

    Declination Angle: 7.5°


    Dish Elevation: --° < what about this??


    Dish Elevation would be shown if you were searching for a satellite. We are setting the initial geometry of the dish and mount.
    So once the H-H (polar) mount is set up correctly. Elevation will follow the arc spot on.
    Remember that for a single satellite on a fixed pole (non motorized). We need to know the azimuth and elevation.
    Got it? Yes/No??


    Silly Questions i guess:



    Do i set my Declination Angle: 7.5° ? < there isnt a 7.5 as it only goes 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 < so should i set it to 7 instead??

    The answer is yes. "Interpolate" it. Guess. You have 7 and you have 8.
    7.5 is right in the middle of 7 and 8.
    Please set that scale to zero until you get the dish bolted down.

    After the proper 22.5 degree offset (reflection angle) is set.
    Afterwards we can then add the 7.5 degrees.
    That should be the very last step.



    Do i now set my Motor Latitude (Elevation): 52.8°?? < there isn't a 52.8° as it only goes 0,5,10,15,20,25,30,35,40,45,50,55,60,65,70,75,80,85,90 < so should i set it to 52 or 53 instead??

    52.8 is pretty darned close the middle of 50 and 55. Why not set it in between them? I would.


    im only asking so i know, and i guess because it says 7.5 (Declination) some how i have to work out how to set it to that??? and the same for the Motor Latitude (Elevation) to 52.8 (work out where 52.8 is)?? or ....

    Don't forget. The 7.5 degrees declination will only come into play once you get the dish reflection angle (offset angle) correct.
    That is why there are all of the slotted adjustments on the dish mounting hardware.
    Again. Declination will be the very last thing we worry about here.
    Let's not put the cart in front of the horse.


    and you are saying my dish should be pointing down to the grass when its correctly aligned? does my dish need to go even higher then?....

    Nooooo. Not down to the grass. But 22.5 degrees lower than the elevation angle.
    So. You have the elevation set as close to 52.8 as you can. Right?
    And the motor shaft is set at 0. Yes?
    And the dish, if you were able to put the gears of the motor in neutral to swing it over the arc.
    It is as high in the arc as it will go. Right?
    And you lay a long straight stick from the top of the dish rim to right in between the lnb bracket on the bottom of the dish rim.
    Use your angle gauge. And angle it down towards the grass.
    The angle to set it at?
    What is that?
    Elevation (latitude) angle minus reflection (offset) angle.
    What is 52.8 minus 22.5?
    Not aimed in the grass. No. But lower than if the dish face was angle was set the same as the elevation. Bolt it down there.
    Then we add declination. You will use the actual adjustment bolt between the dish mounting bracket to set that.
    That will make the dish another 7.5 degrees lower. Not in the grass. But lower, yes.
    Got it? Yes/No??


    just so im 10000% clear... is this correct for tracking the arc starting at/aligning to Thor 0.8w??
    It is the correct procedure to start the align for Thor.
    The rule is always "After setup of the dish mount, aim for the satellite closest to true South of your location"
    So if Thor is your satellite closest to true South. That's where we start.

    ...............................................................................................................................................................................................
    The angle gauge closest to the pole is the angle of the motor shaft that turns the dish through the arc.
    Yes? No?

    The metal plate that the fiberglass dish is mounted to starts out at the exact same angle that the motor shaft is.
    And the declination adjustment in between the slotted dish mount is set at 0.
    Yes? No?

    The specifications for your fiberglass dish states that it "sees" satellites 22-1/2 degrees higher than the rear mounting plate.
    With the plate angle set exactly the same as the motor (elevation) angle.
    The metal plate would be "looking" at satellites in the sky.
    But the dish itself with the LNBF on the bottom of it is "looking" at satellites higher in the sky.
    So you have to lower the dish 22-1/2 degrees. Using the adjustable slotted brackets.
    Yes? No?

    .........ever play pool/billiards? hit the cueball straight on at the rail? the cueball bounces off of the rail and comes right back at you. if you hit the cueball at an angle off of the rail, it bounces away on the table at the same angle it was struck.




    See Again its different Declination and Elevation.....

    Yes! I would like clear photos of as good of a side view of you dish, motor, side view of it all that just fits the frame.
    Side view of the dish mounted to the plate.
    A perfect side view of the motor showing the angle scale with the motor shaft included in it.
    Please.

    And also if you would. Copy this and 'paste it without formatting' in future replies if you could. Please.



    Update:


    so i have now set the elevation to 52.8° ... well best i could do anyway


    and set the Declination Angle: 7.5° ... well best i could do anyway


    "After the proper 22.5 degree offset (reflection angle) is set." < how do i do that bit? with the INCLINOMETER (still not arrived yet) < possibly tomorrow or Saturday hopefully


    did i do it all correctly? < just and fyi changing my elevation to 52.8 (or close as i could get it) its pointing forward towards the neighbours fence.... i have tried to point the dish down abit but obviously i cant do that any ideas?? because from where i am theres no way to point it further down other than to change the elevation so its at the very bottom of the screw which means .....


    theres NO WAY TO POINT THE DISH DOWN < so how can i?....

    Dan, is it possible to take a few pics of the rig as I requested? Its actually quite difficult to give guidance wiithout actually seeing the setup. Lets put it this way, imagine your sat rig is a gun, then it has to aim dead straight at each satellite, and the face of the dish has to be s square. The best way to show it is by referencing the 3 dots. If you are out by 1% you miss the satellite by 68 miles!! And you should have set the dish up on its own first and line up 0.8w but...


    Would you pay to have it done correctly? And you could have got a Gilbertini 1.25m that is just as good, its light, and it can be set up using USALS .


    Put it this way if you have every angle 100% correct and the rig is crooked you are wasting your time.

    Quote from claihew

    Dan, is it possible to take a few pics of the rig as I requested? Its actually quite difficult to give guidance wiithout actually seeing the setup. Lets put it this way, imagine your sat rig is a gun, then it has to aim dead straight at each satellite, and the face of the dish has to be s square. The best way to show it is by referencing the 3 dots. If you are out by 1% you miss the satellite by 68 miles!! And you should have set the dish up on its own first and line up 0.8w but...


    Would you pay to have it done correctly? And you could have got a Gilbertini 1.25m that is just as good, its light, and it can be set up using USALS .


    Put it this way if you have every angle 100% correct and the rig is crooked you are wasting your time.

    I have they are on pages 1 & 4 or 5

    It was this post above " Dan can you do pics of how you have mounted all the rig? is it on a concrete base and bolted to the ground If its on a pole hold a spirit level on the vertical to show its dead straight and then on the mounting brackets on the horizontal to show its dead level. Then you can start aligning the rig."


    No worries best of luck.

    Quote from claihew

    It was this post above " Dan can you do pics of how you have mounted all the rig? is it on a concrete base and bolted to the ground If its on a pole hold a spirit level on the vertical to show its dead straight and then on the mounting brackets on the horizontal to show its dead level. Then you can start aligning the rig."


    No worries best of luck.

    its not bolted to the ground its mounted to a pole which has a base attached, which is sitting on a wooden pallet, (see pic)


    1.jpg


    this picture was taken yesterday, the bags of stones at the bottom is temporary!!


    yes its straight and level aswell!!

    I requested photos also. Why?
    I searched for your H-H mount and came up with several different brands of dished mounted to them.
    And every single one had the geometry setup differently. Every offset dish does not have the 22.5 degree offset like your does.
    I saw one with a prime focus dish mounted. It was the easiest setup of all.
    I stayed up late compiling a set of graphics. This is as clear as it can be.
    You will need an accurate way to measure angles. As mentioned I have one. A nice little digital angle gauge with magnetic base.
    So far so good?
    Here we go. Going to start with comparisons of a Prime focus dish and yours. "Same, but different"

    Polar Before Declination.jpg


    Here is a prime focus dish bolted to your H-H motor. The motor shaft will be set to the 0 reference. It is assumed you have the mount aligned to true south.

    With the declination adjuster set at 0.


    The degree indicator by the ground pole is set for your latitude.
    Measuring the indicated red angles and the black dish mounting plate angles have to equal the latitude settings. Also indicated on the latitude setting bolt by the ground pole.
    The red angles and black mounting plate angle has to be set for your latitude. As close as you are able to.
    Nothing else matters right now.


    Polar Before Declination.jpg


    Here the latitude angles have been set and all of the adjustable mounts are tightened.
    Look at the satellite arc. The dish is aimed above the satellites in it. We haven't added declination yet.
    When we do add the proper declination angle, the dish will lower and should now be aimed at the satellite arc when it is moved East to West.
    So. We now need to add declination.


    Polar With Declination.jpg


    Using the declination adjuster we look at the scale and lower the dish look angle. It would be a very good idea to put your digital angle gauge on the dish mounting plate for this. Because the stamped numbers on the declination scale will "get you there". A digital gauge will put you spot on.


    After declination is added and the bolts(s) tightened. Your geometry should be very very close.
    Look at the diagram upper right. See how declination put the bullseye right on the satellite arc?
    Exactly what we want. We're ready to look for a satellite signal. Since Thor is your target satellite. It's time to start findng it.

    Now. Let's go to setup your offset dish.
    Here we go.


    Offset Before Offset Adjustment.jpg

    Here we have your offset dish mounted to the H-H motor.
    Red is still set for your latitude. The black dish mount plate is set at your latitude angle.

    But look. The dish look angle is way up there in the sky. See it?
    We need to now adjust the mount to compensate for your dish offset.
    With the declination indicator set at 0 and tightened. We need to loosen the bolts that will allow the dish to tilt down.
    See it? It's "looking" way up in the sky.


    So now. Lower the dish angle. Remember. Not with the declination adjuster. With the slotted mounting bracket .
    Lower it using your latitude degrees minus the offset angle of 22.5 degrees.
    The next graphic shows the results.


    Offset After Offset Adjustment.jpg


    Here we have what you need after the offset adjustment. The blue wedge represents where the black dish mounting plate should be after using the slotted brackets.
    Now we have an offset dish properly setup. The black mounting plate will be angled where the blue wedge is at the back of the dish.
    Look at the dish arc graphic. Just like like the polar mount dish. We are tracking above the satellite arc.
    We need to now add the correct declination angle.


    Offset Offset And Declination.jpgOffset Offset And Declination.jpg


    Here we go. What is your correct declination angle? You now need to adjust that.

    Using the declination adjustment bolt and scale. Plus your digital gauge. Turn the declination adjustment so the dish lowers an additional 7.5 degrees from where it is right now. Tighten the declination adjuster. Double check your math.


    Look at the satellite arc graphic now. Your dish is very close to tracking the arc and the bullseye shows the effects of the angles at the dish.


    You are ready to find your target satellite signal.

    Every angle you set is correct. But still a little "Fuzzy".

    You will move the dish in very small incements. East and West.
    Every time you move it just a very little. Lift up and push down on the dish rim.


    When you finally locate Thor. Use the E-W movement to get the highest signal.
    If the dish need to be raised or lowered. Use the declination adjustment.
    But......if the declination adjustment would have to moved a lot. It would be better to loosen the slotted adjustments to do that.
    You really need to keep the declination adjustment scale within only a few degrees.


    As you try to locate other satellite. Start at ones the closest to Thor first.
    Expect to find tracking errors. Use the chart below and think what is happening.


    You may find that Thor signal is the highest it can get after you tweak the adjustments.

    And the next satellite you locate. You may have to pull up or push down on the dish rim.

    It will get worse as you get further away from Thor.

    Get a pattern. "Do I have to pull up or push down on the dish to get a better signal?".


    A few tips to remember. It's in many polar mount (the type you have) no matter who made them.


    Tracking errors higher in the arc. Use the latitude adjustment.

    Tracking errors at arc extremes. Use the declination adjusters.

    You may have to loosen the whole mount on the pole and turn it a little bit.

    It's a delicate dance.


    And none of these types of mounts are plug and play. More like plug and patience.

    And it's definitely nothing like being Neo and suddenly knowing Kung Fu.


    Tuning the arc.jpgTuning the arc.jpg

General Satellite & Installation Support Forum

Support for LNBs, Single satellite, motorised and multi-satellite systems. DiSEqC switches, positioners, motors, actuators, dish-alignment help.

Participate now!

Don’t have an account yet? Register yourself now and be a part of our community!

Register Yourself Login