Help Correctly Aligning My 1.2M Channel Master Dish and moteck H-H180 motor

Quote from supwiddiss

Well time to start believing it. The dish mount is apparently not entirely compatible with the motor and the proper angles cannot be attained.
A few drilled holes should solve the interference problems and allow for a wider range of adjustment.
It will not hurt anything at all at this point in the game.
We just have a bit of a comprension problem to deal with now.
Once those damned holes are drilled!
Of coures you're free to drive over and help him. Kind of a long and cold swim for me.

Ah OK, sorry, I thought this was all part of the same “kit”. I didn't realise it was pieced together.

Quote from jenseneverest

Im away for several weeks now...... possibly years......

What do you mean?

indisposed
off the grid
left the reservation
took a very long stroll on a very short pier
mia
left the building

elevator stuck between floors!

Oh. And hopefully we're not thinking and we're doing something at this point.
Two holes drilled is no biggie. ONCE IT'S DONE. lol!!
And....it's reversible.
These piddly squat motors are nowhere as good as a genuine polar mount with linear actuator.
Mine is still strong after being on the pole since '84.

But....we'll manage.
Did I mention. Once those holes are drilled? And someone learns how to read angles and add and subtract?

I am sort of surprised after 12 pages and 200+ replies, No One has mentioned the degrees of offset needing to be added to the degrees of declination when mounting an offset dish on a polar mount. For example, if the degrees of offset for the dish are 22 and the degrees of declination for your location are 8, then the total degrees of declination are 30! This tidbit has been overlooked and not mentioned so far.

The Motek H180 was manufactured some 20 years ago. The proper Motek H180 mounting plate for an offset dish such as the Channel Master 1.2 meter would most likely be wedged shaped to allow for the extra offset degrees needed for declination. The 1.2 meter Channel Master mount shown in this thread appears to be flat, which means it does not compensate for the extra degrees needed for the declination.

Most of the successful Motek H180 installations that actually tracked the satellite arc a great distance used a prime focus type satellite dish. The Motek H180 was discontinued soon after it was introduced for a reason. Dish mounting was probably one of those reasons. The Motek H180 had many problems.

IMO, Any real success here will start with a properly mounted dish pole of the correct size. What is shown is too short and appears to be too small for the motor. Make sure the motor pole is of the proper dimensions and mounted in the ground. This means digging a hole, properly installing the motor pole, and then pouring a bag or two of concrete into the hole.

Next the Channel Mater 1.2 meter dish should be installed on the properly prepared pole without the motor and using the original Channel Master dish hardware to install it on the pole. Then find the satellite you will use for South and make a careful note of the dish angle. Why do this? because you will need to know the correct dish angle so you can use it when you install the motor.

Most likely, None of the settings on the motor can be used. You can expect both the declination and elevation numbers on the motor to be off because you are mounting an offset dish onto a polar mount without the proper plate for the offset dish! This is Why getting the proper angle of the satellite dish while it is stationary or fixed due south is important.

Listed below are a few links that describe the task to be done, or give very limited examples of H180 installs. You can expect to have to add at least 20 more degrees of declination to the back of your dish. Look at the satellite superstore link. There you will see examples of polar mounts for offset dishes. Note the generous declination they have at the top of the mount.

This is a hobby. Do things on your own time and at your own speed. Think about what you are doing, and understand or know Why you are doing something before you do it. Do Not rush or get in a hurry! Patience is golden. Good Luck!!!

Explanation of satellite dish polar mount set-up and alignment

Polar mount: Elevation calculation problem

How to set up a satellite dish polar mount

Satellite dish actuators motors. 36 volt Superjack actuators. Polar mounts. Inclined orbit motors. DISEqC motors. 36 inch. USALS

Moteck H180 Motor

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Hey EB. How's Mr. Douglas and Eva Gabor? And Mr. Haney. Lol....got coffee?
Read back to the London install. It clearly shows the same motor and mount on what appears the be the same dish.
Oh. Read back more! Declination already has been discussed. And adding that using the scale on the motor bracket After we get the offset angle.
It's just that #1. We have to get the OP to establish the correct declination and the the dish beam angle.
Now there's a new one from the Channel Master manual stating a beam angle (axis) of 16.97 deg. versus the 22.5 deg. that is widely reported if you Google search 'wtf is the offset angle of a CM, Raven, Andrews dish. History showing they're all one in the same. Just licensed from Andrews and down the line.

Declination comes after we match the elevation angle of the motor shaft to the rear dish mounting plate plane. Parallel to each other.
Then drop the front of the dish the 22.5 deg. more than that. Then a new can of worms opens up. What if the beam angle is actually 16.97 deg?
Sharpie time. Yeah....

Read back to the OP's very first post. We have obstacles to hurdle. Enough said.

A prime focus dish would be nice. A simple bolt it up, set elevation and declination. And the usual hunt and tweak.
But we don't. And again. Please take a gander at the London setup. Offset dish using the same motor.
Fairies with boots. I saw it with my own two eyes.

Through the plethora of photos the OP has presented. And the pleading of not being able to attain the correct dish plate angle and interference of the motor arm that prevents him form doing it. Look back. 2 holes. Moves the lower slotted dish bracket closer to the front. More offset angle adjustment.
*Ding*

You make a very valid point. But finding the exact hardware needed will be exhausting and probably a whole hill of beans.
All we need is two drilled holes. I already mocked it up with pieces of cardboard and some not-to-scale dimensions.
It will work. Ummmm...I think. I ain't exactly there.
If Fred EX dropped a box at my door. In the vice the motor pole bracket world go. Elevation set. Dish plate lined up. Dee and Walt helping to drill a few holes.
Plate hardware bolted up. Angles set.
Maybe a chunk of foil on the dish center and a laser pointer in the lnbf throat. Is it 22 or 16? You know.
With a digital inclinometer.
Yeahhh... without a single brain fart.

As mentioned. We have had obstacles to hurdle. Reading technical jargon may not be the OP's forte'. And you gotta' pat the dude on the back for his sheer interest in learning. And. After this I truly hope he does. And not monkey see, monkey do.

Finding the degrees of offset for a dish such as the Channel Master 1.2 meter is easy if you have the fixed or stationary mount hardware for it. Simply mount the dish on a pole that is perfectly straight and not leaning in any direction, then aim the dish at the satellite you will use for South and carefully tune it. The degrees of offset will be found by comparing the difference in elevation degrees of the Channel Master mount and the actual measured degrees (angle) of the dish. Yet another reason to start with a stationary mount.

Adding declination degrees to the polar mount dish system Does Not have to be precise because you have a few degrees of declination that can be used on the motor. So you can be off a little bit figuring the offset into total declination and still be OK. What is most important is to get the proper angle of the dish while it is installed on a pole without the motor hardware because this angle Will Not change. The dish angle degrees will be the same when aimed at the south whether it is on a stationary pole or a dish motor.

As for drilling holes, drill as many as you want or need. Make the metal look like a piece of Swiss Cheese if needed. Just because someone mounted one of these dishes using a similar plate does not mean it is right. But it may have been enough to suit the needs of the particular user.

Proper Declination is not needed to view a few satellites that are very close to the center of the arc. How many satellites may be viewed without declination will depend on where you are in the world. Some users may find the few degrees of declination supplied with the motor are enough to view what they want. But to set this system up properly where it will track a great distance in the arc will require either a prime focus type dish or great modifications to the dish declination.

Quote from Dan Addison

UPDATE 23/1/24: (Grieving a family loss today - BE KIND!!)

So today i have done the following! < SURPRISED?? <

1. Removed the faceplate from my dish
   
   Good!
2. Taken 5 Pictures of the faceplate showing it from all angles! < so you know what it actually looks like!!) (SEE PICS 2,3,4, & 7)
   
   Good!
3. Reattached the dish faceplate to the motor brackets (at the top ONLY!) (SEE PICS 1, 6 & 8) (Pic 6 & 8 are taken from the top looking down!, Pic 5 is taken from the right hand side; looking at it, pic 1 is taken from the left hand side; looking at it (in case you are wondering!)
   
   Good! Wondering if the pole is absolutely plumb. If it is, no need for pictures.
   And the scale on the motor closest to the pole, your elevation angle. Is set.
   If you were to hold your inclinometer in line to an imaginery line that goes right through the center of the motor shaft. It should match your elevation angle. Can you put a pic up of that?
   There should be two dimples on each end of the motor shaft. Use those for your degree measurement.
   
   
4. I also put my inclinometer on the faceplate as well to show you the current angle it is (currently 60 degrees I KNOW ITS MENT TO BE AT 90 but that's the best I could do in this wind and rain!!) (SEE PIC 8)

To Me My Pic 5 (the dish plate now needs to go either forward at the top to 90 degrees or i need some longer brackets??

No. Actually I would. For a starting point. See if you can loosen the top bolts and reduce the angle so that your inclinometer reads the motor shaft angle.
If you can do this. We can save some math and you will get a better understanding.
In other words. Put your gauge on the flat motor plate and make the angle the same as the latitude (elevation) angle on the pole indicator.
Please forget the 90 degrees thing for now.

The red lines. No need for 100% accuracy for the red line going through the motor shaft. As close as you can visually.
Photo and showing the angle or you telling me the reading you got.
Red line on the dish mount. The same reading you get on the face of it.
Make the skinny red line match the fat motor angle shaft. Please.

Offset Before Offset Adjustment_Cropped.jpg

And get back. I had a few service calls this morning. I'm free now.

Things I KNOW I STILL NEED TO DO:

1. Make sure the faceplate is at 90 degrees instead of 60 (BY ADDING A WEDGE BETWEEN PLATE AND DISH' See pic below this line) YES OR NO? also drilling holes higher up the mounting plate like in this pic (bit up from bottom?)
2. Drill 2 holes 1 in each side of the lower mounting bracket (gold part at the bottom, not currently bolted on) YES I KNOW !
3. Bolt my dish to the faceplate from the bottom keeping it at 90 degrees (forward by 10 degrees) adding a wedge of wood or something behind the top part (to stop it falling back on itself) & Try to realign to Thor 0.8w....?
4. IM STILL WAITING ON MY NEW INCLINOMETER TO ARRIVE DUE TO THE CURRENT ONE BEING DAMAGED (Keeps falling off)!!
5. Oh and wipe the mud of the parts that have mud on them & take Fragile tape of.
6. Oh & Add the new Slabs to the ground mount once they arrive & remove the bags of stones & make the ground level (somehow)......
7. Oh & have a chilling good time once its all set up! :)
8. I HOPE THERE ISNT MUCH MORE TO DO AFTER I DONE THESE STEPS.... ??!! :)
9. & Say thanks to you guys for helping! ;)

P.S; My Picture 1 doesn't look to far off from this pic: (DOES IT)?

IF YOU LOOK AT PICTURE 1 YOU WILL SEE WHAT I MEAN!!

THESE NEXT FEW STEPS IM HOPING TO HAVE COMPLETED BY THE END OF THE WEEK/EARLY NEXT WEEK

(WORK & WEATHER DEPENDENT)!!

Anything Else?

I HOPE THIS PROVES IM LISTENING AND READING ALL YOUR REPLYS!!

@supwiddiss

@jenseneverest

@BanjoXo71

I'm still 100% committed to this are you for helping me??!!

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Quote from Dan Addison

Quote from supwiddiss

Quote from Dan Addison

UPDATE 23/1/24: (Grieving a family loss today - BE KIND!!)

So today i have done the following! < SURPRISED?? <

1. Removed the faceplate from my dish
   
   Good!
2. Taken 5 Pictures of the faceplate showing it from all angles! < so you know what it actually looks like!!) (SEE PICS 2,3,4, & 7)
   
   Good!
3. Reattached the dish faceplate to the motor brackets (at the top ONLY!) (SEE PICS 1, 6 & 8) (Pic 6 & 8 are taken from the top looking down!, Pic 5 is taken from the right hand side; looking at it, pic 1 is taken from the left hand side; looking at it (in case you are wondering!)
   
   Good! Wondering if the pole is absolutely plumb. If it is, no need for pictures.
   And the scale on the motor closest to the pole, your elevation angle. Is set.
   If you were to hold your inclinometer in line to an imaginery line that goes right through the center of the motor shaft. It should match your elevation angle. Can you put a pic up of that?
   There should be two dimples on each end of the motor shaft. Use those for your degree measurement.
   
   
4. I also put my inclinometer on the faceplate as well to show you the current angle it is (currently 60 degrees I KNOW ITS MENT TO BE AT 90 but that's the best I could do in this wind and rain!!) (SEE PIC 8)

To Me My Pic 5 (the dish plate now needs to go either forward at the top to 90 degrees or i need some longer brackets??

No. Actually I would. For a starting point. See if you can loosen the top bolts and reduce the angle so that your inclinometer reads the motor shaft angle.
If you can do this. We can save some math and you will get a better understanding.
In other words. Put your gauge on the flat motor plate and make the angle the same as the latitude (elevation) angle on the pole indicator.
Please forget the 90 degrees thing for now.

The red lines. No need for 100% accuracy for the red line going through the motor shaft. As close as you can visually.
Photo and showing the angle or you telling me the reading you got.
Red line on the dish mount. The same reading you get on the face of it.
Make the skinny red line match the fat motor angle shaft. Please.

Offset Before Offset Adjustment_Cropped.jpg

And get back. I had a few service calls this morning. I'm free now.

Things I KNOW I STILL NEED TO DO:

1. Make sure the faceplate is at 90 degrees instead of 60 (BY ADDING A WEDGE BETWEEN PLATE AND DISH' See pic below this line) YES OR NO? also drilling holes higher up the mounting plate like in this pic (bit up from bottom?)
2. Drill 2 holes 1 in each side of the lower mounting bracket (gold part at the bottom, not currently bolted on) YES I KNOW !
3. Bolt my dish to the faceplate from the bottom keeping it at 90 degrees (forward by 10 degrees) adding a wedge of wood or something behind the top part (to stop it falling back on itself) & Try to realign to Thor 0.8w....?
4. IM STILL WAITING ON MY NEW INCLINOMETER TO ARRIVE DUE TO THE CURRENT ONE BEING DAMAGED (Keeps falling off)!!
5. Oh and wipe the mud of the parts that have mud on them & take Fragile tape of.
6. Oh & Add the new Slabs to the ground mount once they arrive & remove the bags of stones & make the ground level (somehow)......
7. Oh & have a chilling good time once its all set up! :)
8. I HOPE THERE ISNT MUCH MORE TO DO AFTER I DONE THESE STEPS.... ??!! :)
9. & Say thanks to you guys for helping! ;)

P.S; My Picture 1 doesn't look to far off from this pic: (DOES IT)?

IF YOU LOOK AT PICTURE 1 YOU WILL SEE WHAT I MEAN!!

THESE NEXT FEW STEPS IM HOPING TO HAVE COMPLETED BY THE END OF THE WEEK/EARLY NEXT WEEK

(WORK & WEATHER DEPENDENT)!!

Anything Else?

I HOPE THIS PROVES IM LISTENING AND READING ALL YOUR REPLYS!!

@supwiddiss

@jenseneverest

@BanjoXo71

I'm still 100% committed to this are you for helping me??!!

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Hi,

(Your Replys White, Mine Red)

"No. Actually I would. For a starting point. See if you can loosen the top bolts and reduce the angle so that your inclinometer reads the motor shaft angle."

Loosen the two bolts from the 2 brackets that are holding the dish plate on? at the min i haven't drilled new holes in the bottom lower mounting arm (will do when it stops raining) If we can get the measured angles. Holes may not have to be drilled. But I would like you to just do it anyway.
I'm surprised you couldn't just bring everything inside a garage or spot in your home. No rain inside and it's warm.

"If you can do this. We can save some math and you will get a better understanding."

HOPE SO!

"In other words. Put your gauge on the flat motor plate and make the angle the same as the latitude (elevation) angle on the pole indicator."

URM..... SO I Put my INCLINOMETER in the dish faceplate (like i did i pic 8??) making sure its at what number? 52 degrees??
Yeah. Exactly like the picture shows. If your latitude is supposed to be X degrees. And you set the pole indicator to that.
Then an imaginary line through the center of the motor shaft will be the same.
And you lower the dish faceplate to the same exact angle.

Not to confuse you but we could attain the same thing if you just set the pole indicator at 0.
That would put a bubble level and hopefully your angle gauge level.
The motor shaft would be 0 degrees too. Level.
And the dish faceplate could be set at the same 0 angle.
Is that something you could do without a bunch of back and forth?

"Please forget the 90 degrees thing for now."

why?

Because that was another way of thinking. Let's not complicate things any more for you.
Let's just do it my way. You need to master this. And if you do any more setups like this. Hopefully it will make sense and be easier.
Deal? Don't overthink things. Listen to me and me only now.

"The red lines. No need for 100% accuracy for the red line going through the motor shaft. As close as you can visually."

OK.....

"Photo and showing the angle or you telling me the reading you got."

OK.....

"Red line on the dish mount. The same reading you get on the face of it."
OK.....

"Make the skinny red line match the fat motor angle shaft. Please."

OK HOW?.....
Well. The slotted adjusters. Loosen bolts and see if you can do it. Please.
And if not. Still lay your inclinometer on the plate and give me a pic and the readings you get.

Offset Before Offset Adjustment_Cropped.jpg

PLEASE EDIT ONE OF MY NEW PICS SO I CAN SEE IT THANKS!

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Stop. Right now. Blue is impossible to read.
Highlight the text you wish to respond to. Right click on it and copy.
Paste it to a new window. Then add your questions.

By now you should know what has already been mentioned.
If you haven't printed the pages of detailed instructions. Do it.
Get a pen or highlighter so you can reference the terminology.

I shall start. You will keep track of the explanations. Or go back to reference what has already been given to you.

Do....you.....understand?
I will do this one more time. And you will go back through the replies and illustrations and make note of the terminologies.
This is not Groundhog Day.
And I do not believe that you are applying yourself.
If you aid attention. This complete task could be done in 1 hour.
I shall do this one more time. But I will not explain what has already been explained to you in the multiple posts here.

1)

"In other words. Put your gauge on the flat motor plate and make the angle the same as the latitude (elevation) angle on the pole indicator."

URM..... SO I Put my INCLINOMETER in the dish faceplate (like i did i pic 8??) making sure its at what number? 52 degrees??

Yeah. Exactly like the picture shows. If your latitude is supposed to be X degrees. And you set the pole indicator to that.

Then an imaginary line through the center of the motor shaft will be the same.

And you lower the dish faceplate to the same exact angle.

OK SO I SET IT TO 52?

What is your current latitude? Is that written on a piece of paper in front of you?
If you know that then you have answered your own question.
Is your latitude 52 degrees North?
What is the solution?

2)

"Not to confuse you but we could attain the same thing if you just set the pole indicator at 0." > Pole indicator? what do you mean by that?

That would put a bubble level and hopefully your angle gauge level.

"The motor shaft would be 0 degrees too. Level." > Motor Shaft? what do you mean by that?

"And the dish faceplate could be set at the same 0 angle." > do u mean the way i had it before?

Is that something you could do without a bunch of back and forth? > Guess not...

Pole Indicator:

Motor Shaft:

There is only one shaft that moves your dish. It's is the one that protrudes from the motor housing.
Where the brackets are fastened to to mount the dish adapter to and adjust the declination angle.
That shaft is the motor shaft.
What the fuck.jpg

3)

If the elevation were set to 0 degrees from the elevation scale.
The motor shaft will be level. Your inclinometer should read 0 if you (once again) were able to place it level with the arrow point on each side of the motor shaft.
The dish adapter plate would also be ideally placed flat across the top of the whole thing so that you also read 0 on the inclinometer.
We are doing this to establish a starting point to align the motor plate for the correct dish reflection angle.

Do You understand horizontal is 0 degrees?
Do You understand veritcal is 90 degrees?
Do You understand half of those two angles is 45 degrees? You have a tool that will tell you.

CAN YOU DO THIS?
AND NOTHING MORE?

What is your current latitude? Is that written on a piece of paper in front of you? >52.7<

If you know that then you have answered your own question.

Is your latitude 52 degrees North?

What is the solution? NO IDEA

>52.7< Fifty frikkin Two point Seven Degrees
YOU FRIKKIN' ANSWERED IT!!!HOW-LAY-LOO-YA!
Can I get a witness!!!!

Do You understand horizontal is 0 degrees? I GUESS

YOU GUESS? STOP GUESSING AND START LEARNING. I's a YES or NO answer. What is YOURS?

Do You understand veritcal is 90 degrees? OK

OK YES or OK NO? It's a question. Answer it.

Do You understand half of those two angles is 45 degrees? You have a tool that will tell you. OK

Again........OK YES or OK NO? It's a question. Answer it.

Sorry to disturb your discussion !

after all that ... does the man has signal ?